Jennifer Yoffy  00:06

Welcome to Perfect Bound. I'm Jennifer Yoffy, the founder and publisher of Yoffy Press in Atlanta, Georgia. This is a podcast where we talk to artists about their journey, how they got where they are, what right and wrong turns they made along the way, and where they're heading next. In March of this year, Ashlyn Davis Burns and Shane Lavalette formed Assembly, a gallery agency and creative studio supporting an innovative roster of visual artists who are engaging in some of the most important social and cultural issues of our time. Ashland Davis Burns has worked to support lens based artists for the past decade through curatorial editorial and fundraising initiatives, including most recently as the Executive Director and Curator of Houston Center for Photography. She has written numerous publications consulted with artists and publishers on photo books, and curated exhibitions internationally for a variety of institutions, including libraries, universities and galleries. Shane Lavalette worked as the Director of Light Work for the past ten years, a nonprofit dedicated to supporting emerging and underrepresented artists working in photography. He's also a publisher, editor, writer, and consultant to collectors, institutions, photo editors and artists. Shane has a broad range of professional experience in curating, publishing, design, creative direction, art buying, fundraising and advocating to make the field more equitable for artists. Please welcome Ashlyn and Shane to the podcast. So thank you guys for doing this today. Super excited. This is my first three way podcast. I'm gonna cut that out. Now, this has been exciting and super exciting to read about Assembly and what you're doing. And so I have a ton of questions. Are you guys ready?

02:04

We're ready.

Jennifer Yoffy  02:06

What were or are the obstacles that you see for artists in the existing art ecosphere that you hope to solve or improve with Assembly? Like, what were you noticing that you thought needed to be addressed?

Ashlyn Davis Burns  02:23

That's like a killer first question.

Jennifer Yoffy  02:27

I try to start strong, you know?

Ashlyn Davis Burns  02:29

I mean, I think kind of the the starting point question for Shane and I was how do we support the creative practice? So not just the end product, but how an artist makes their life and how they get to the end product. So for us, it was about simplifying that hustle, you know that you know, you're doing commercial work, you're doing your fine art work, you're writing grants, you're doing your marketing. So how can we bring those things together to just simplify things for the artist, because we believe what's good for them is ultimately good for us. And that all aspects of those things feed into each other and support the artists career.

Jennifer Yoffy  03:12

You wanted to do something that would help support them. So they could focus more on the making?

Ashlyn Davis Burns  03:19

Yeah, exactly. I mean, what allows them the time to focus on their practice? And then, you know, I think a very real thing is that Shane, and I love art. And so we want to promote it in the world. And that kind of feeds our spirit too.

Shane Lavalette  03:37

Yeah, I think the question you asked us was the same question. You know, we were asking and in, in early conversations, especially with artists to try to get a better sense of, you know, what's worked in the gallery world? And what hasn't? And where can we kind of fill in gaps? Or where can we be different than what they've experienced? You know, whether it's on the commercial side or in the fine art world? Absolutely.

Jennifer Yoffy  04:03

It seems like huge galleries, you know, like the Pace and you know, larger type galleries will kind of support their artists in a way that more emerging or kind of mid career artists don't get that - they kind of have to really scrap and make it on their own until they get to that level. So do you feel like in some ways you are collaborating with the artists to take some of that burden off?

Ashlyn Davis Burns  04:33

Yeah. And I think since we don't have the brick and mortar overhead, or the time that a brick and mortar takes, like, that's what's allowing us to really do this right now. Whereas, you know, if we were running a space, eight hours a day and not only the overhead, but just the amount of time it takes this may not be as possible with just two people.

Jennifer Yoffy  04:58

So what are the unique skills or perspectives that each of you bring to the table that makes your collaboration more impactful. I know that you have similar interests, but you've come to them in different ways.

Shane Lavalette  05:13

Yeah, I think we have slightly different backgrounds too. I mean, Ashlyn can speak to hers, it's been a bit more of an academic background. And then we both have the crossover and working in the nonprofit world, and these spaces that do really wonderful work to put artists at the center of the types of projects that are happening. But then, of course, I'm an artist myself. So I work as a photographer, and I understand some of these challenges that we're trying to address. And you know, the ways in which finding your support system or finding your people can, you know, change your career or change your practice in positive ways.

Ashlyn Davis Burns  05:51

You know, Shane and I both have really strong administrative backgrounds with our nonprofit work, you know, we're really adept at grant writing and raising money, but also putting together shows and doing marketing. And then as Shane said, I have a more academic background focused on the history of photography. So I'm really passionate about putting work into a conversation, and into a context that not only is richly informed by the history of photography, but is I hope, you know, we hope immensely accessible. So I think I can't remember Shane, if this came up in one of our prior podcasts, but I have the mom test, like, Can my mom understand what it is that we're trying to say about this work? And if she can't, then maybe we've missed the mark. And my mom's a really smart lady, it has nothing to do with that, but just reaching outside of our, you know, sometimes jargony world and language in order to make sure that that the work is accessible and understandable to a broad public.

Jennifer Yoffy  06:57

And Shane, you obviously also have publishing experience? What about the commercial side of things? Is that an area you're learning or something that you already had?

Shane Lavalette  07:08

Yeah, I mean, I have a lot of contacts and colleagues and friends that work as photo editors and art directors, and, you know, in whether it's the advertising field or in magazines, and, of course, as a photographer, I've been doing some commissioned work and commercial work for, you know, close to close to 15 years. So some of those contacts and relationships are through that. But I think our experience in you know, nonprofit administration and curatorial work, and then maybe just an exciting shift in the commercial field and industry, especially in the last, you know, five years or so maybe even less, where, you know, there's more space and interest for commercial projects and connecting with artists, as opposed to what might be commercial photographers to do more interesting, you know, visual projects, unique artistic collaborations and things that sort of amplify the, you know, creativity and vision of the artist, in and of itself. And I think that the commercial field is evolving in an interesting way where there's more and more interest in that there's more and more need to, like, support these projects that can happen and bring a vision to them as well.

Jennifer Yoffy  08:25

Is that something that you first see you pitching brands with ideas?

Shane Lavalette  08:32

We're doing both. Yeah, I mean, what is the date now, it's almost April. So we've existed for about a month, you know, publicly. But you know, in that time we're in the process of you know, sales with the collectors replacing work with institutions or in conversation, we've received pitches from different magazines and had conversations in the fashion industry. And then vice versa, we're developing some stories and projects, especially some editorial ones that kind of relate to the interests of our artists or in getting work out into the world that might be in progress or that they want to make. So it's, it's a bit of a combination of, you know, sort of seeing what comes our way and seeing how we can help and connect the dots, as we say, and find the right artists for the project or for the story, and then doing a bit of legwork ourselves and dreaming some things up and talking with the photo editors and art directors and agents at advertising agencies to see where it makes sense to work together.

Ashlyn Davis Burns  09:42

Yeah, and I think at the end of the day, it's about storytelling, you know, and making sure we have the right voice, the right artist, for the right project.

Jennifer Yoffy  09:51

So to pivot you, you currently have 10 artists as part of Assembly. Are you hoping to grow that is there are a cap on the total number, and are you anticipating that artists will rotate in and out? Or is the goal to work with each artists on more of an ongoing and long term basis?

Ashlyn Davis Burns  10:11

Yeah, we certainly want to develop long term relationships with these artists, because I think that's where the most reward comes from on both ends. You know, it can take sometimes a year for a certain project to develop or even longer, same for an acquisition, you know, for a major acquisition to happen. But at the same time, it's a question we kind of get asked the most, and we get so many emails from artists saying, you know, hey, consider me for your roster. And even getting to these 10 was a very, very long process. For Shane and I, there are so many artists who we would love the opportunity to work with. But we also have to keep things manageable, you know, what can two people do and do well, in this first 12 to 18 months?

Shane Lavalette  11:00

Yeah, I think that's a big part of the vision is developing this intimacy and close communication with artists where we really understand you know, where they're at in their career, and with their work and what are some of their short term and long term goals? And how can we, you know, sort of help foster some of those types of projects or, you know, programs or things that will bring those to light.

Jennifer Yoffy  11:26

One of the first things that I noticed, and I'm sure most people did was the diversity of your roster. It's really exciting and refreshing, and makes a strong statement about your platform right out of the gate. And I know that both of you have been passionate in your careers about sharing the work of underrepresented artists. And I wanted to know if that was one of the initial stated focuses that you got, you know, this is a like a pillar of what you want to do, or was it more of a byproduct of working with artists that you were already involved with?

Ashlyn Davis Burns  12:02

Definitely the latter. I mean, I think representing diverse voices is just something that Shane and I aspire to do in all of the work that we do. So we didn't necessarily say, Hey, we have this goal, let's try to meet that through the roster. It was more that through putting together this roster, this diversity emerged, that is one of the first things that people comment on. But, you know, for us, we really wanted the roster to feel global, to have artists in different locations for different opportunities. And a lot of these artists are really well represented in Europe, but maybe not so much in the US. So that's really an exciting opportunity for us.

Shane Lavalette  12:46

Yeah, I mean, I think the idea of thinking globally, and wanting to work globally, is certainly a reflection of that, you know, in terms of locations. But, it's also intended to be a group of artists that we had already worked with in some capacity. So it sort of speaks to some of the projects we've done, whether it's exhibitions, or residencies, or other programs, you know, over the past decade or so.

Jennifer Yoffy  13:13

So I have a deep respect and a personal affinity for anyone who's looking at the art world and seeing its shortcomings and trying to do something differently, especially if that new way is more equitable for the artists. And I definitely have shaped my career around that value. You said that you have had relationships with artists on your roster, you know, working with them in the past. And I wanted to know what the general response was when you approached them to be part of Assembly since it was new, and no one's really done this before, or definitely in this way, or combine this many elements in one platform. So what was the response?

Shane Lavalette  13:58

I mean, we were met with such a positive response, especially from some of the artists who, you know, again, had experienced certain aspects of the field not working for them, or, you know, some of the ways in which we're operating, they're specifically looking for that support. So, you know, some of the artists were just like, this is amazing. This is something I've dreamed of or thought should exist. And again, it's not it's not entirely a new model. We're not the only platform that is kind of operating in a hybrid way or, you know, supporting fine art and commercial work. But we're bringing maybe a different form of experience and interest to Assembly.

Ashlyn Davis Burns  14:42

Yeah, and I think, you know, since Shane and I, there's overlap of some of the artists that we've worked with, there was a real excitement about the two of us coming together because there was that trust there and they know how we work and what our values are. So I mean, it was exciting having those initial conversations and being validated that artists were saying, yes, this is what we need. And why doesn't this exist? Unless you're at that upper tier?

Shane Lavalette  15:12

How long? Did you guys brainstorm this? I mean, how long was it kind of a hazy dream? And then how long was it, Uh, like, okay, let's put pen to paper and figure this out and then approaching the artists and having to keep it under wraps before the big reveal? Well, we've known each other for what Ashlyn, I don't know, six years? Yeah, something like that. And so I feel like a few years into knowing each other, we began conversing about ideas for what sort of platforms or models could exist or should exist in the field. So in some ways, the hazy idea was kind of born then. And then, you know, when the pandemic hit, I think it's, it's just a time of personal reflection, and life changes. And both of us were, you know, in the midst of thinking about those things, and making some changes, and this was an exciting way to do that, and sort of move towards launching something together. But a lot of it really came together early in this year. And, you know, I guess I would say around like, the holidays, and things like building out a website, and, you know, putting things in place for how we're going to exist virtually. It's really been the last few months of very, very intense work, especially after I transitioned out of my position at Light Work.

Ashlyn Davis Burns  16:37

Yeah, I mean, I think it was several years of like ping ponging conversations of just things we were excited about. I don't think Shane and I ever really knew in those early conversations that we might start something together, it was just more like, Hey, this, this model is really cool or This brings together several different things that I'm passionate about. I mean, Shane, and I both love music, and we both love food. So there's a while where even food was something that was on the table. And it you know, it was this big, long conversations that once the pandemic hit, I think, you know, for me, in particular, I was like, well, this could be a really unique opportunity to make a shift and a transition and build something that doesn't exist. And Shane, and I kept talking, and I mean, I think it's exciting that you can have those really big, fun, inspired conversations and have it materialize into something real.

Shane Lavalette  17:38

Yeah, I remember being excited about Well, a few different hybrid spaces, like places like Le Bal, for example, in Paris, which, you know, is like an amazing bookstore, a really beautiful gallery, amazing cafe and restaurant, and, you know, done so well. And so I think we're even at that point, you know, thinking about spaces like that, and projects like that, that bring together different elements in a way. That's very exciting, just that concept in and of itself, regardless of what the form is. And the focal points are, is, I think, very exciting. And you know, we're in this place where the brick and mortar or the static space is not a main focus of ours. But you know, some of that has to do with the pandemic too, just kind of waiting and seeing what may make sense for the future. I think that a physical space has a lot of value. And the ability to bring people together and celebrate art is just so important. But over the course of this coming year, in particular, we're trying to think very creatively about how to use space, or how to partner to make things happen where we can collaborate to produce exhibitions, or perhaps rent a space that might be short term, to do an experience or pop up exhibition. But this gives us a lot of flexibility.

Jennifer Yoffy  18:56

You could drive a Volkswagen bus around the country, for example, that sounds familiar. Yeah, yeah. I can't undersell it enough. That is a not a reliable vehicle. But I could see, especially when you guys are in different cities, and I think a lot of cities in the US could benefit from a gathering place. But also, it has been shown those are hard to sustain over time. So a pop up model could be really interesting to give people in different places a taste of it.

Shane Lavalette  19:33

We're thinking a lot about how we can you know, have a print presence at art fairs, where it makes sense to get involved with working with festivals. And then yeah, exactly partnerships with institutions or space rental, whether it's shorter or you know, semi-longer term, but that means we could, you know, have an exhibition in Los Angeles and months later have an exhibition on the other side of the world. And, you know, we have a different kind of flexibility. You know, I think something is lost with not having a static space. Of course, I think you build a tight knit community and you build the regulars like you would a cafe. But you know, we'll see what comes of the coming year or two, and maybe something like that could transpire?

Jennifer Yoffy  20:22

Yeah, I would think that with COVID, and a lot of retail and commercial spaces, closing, that there would be a lot of opportunity to kind of squat, for lack of a better term, but you know, like, do these short term rentals in really interesting places.

Shane Lavalette  20:38

Yeah, and rental prices are down in some of the bigger cities, too. So that's a big opportunity.

Ashlyn Davis Burns  20:43

Yeah, there's a lot of interesting spaces in Houston right now that are just totally vacant. But I mean, I think that brings us back to this idea of sustainability, you know, when all of these galleries around the country are closing, how are we crazy enough to try to start something in this particular moment, and I think we've hit on something that, at least for the moment, does feel sustainable. And as the world shifts, and as you know, what we do shifts, we're able to be responsive to that.

Jennifer Yoffy  21:15

Yeah, that's awesome. So I obviously have a special interest in photo books so I wanted to talk about the first project that you guys are promoting Fumi Ishino's Index of Fillers book. So how did it come out that Assembly would publish this book? I know, it's a small run.

Ashlyn Davis Burns  21:35

Yeah, I mean, for me, has been making so many projects, like, over the past five years, that are still kind of in development. And, you know, when we were speaking to him, he talked to us about this book. And for us, it made sense, you know, to do this limited edition, hand made book that really capitalizes on a lot of the ideas from these practice addresses, but in a really fun and unique way. So, you know, it was just a series of conversations. Ultimately, they got us to where we were, but it's extremely manageable. Because it's such a small print brand, it's, it's almost sold out. So if anyone is listening and thinking of getting it, you should do that immediately.

Shane Lavalette  22:22

I think the I mean, the three elements of how we're working right sort of as a gallery, and operating in the fine art world as an agency and working in the commercial world. And then, as a creative studio. Really, that means that we're you know, thinking about what sort of curatorial projects we can do, and what types of publishing projects or consulting and other things we can do. So it's this really expansive thing where everything from self publishing something and you know, releasing something through Assembly to, you know, potentially collaborating with another publisher. But then in this case, it was a real direct collaboration with the artists to produce a very special object. And the book itself is very complex and interesting too.

Jennifer Yoffy  23:08

Did you all help with the edit and sequence and design of it, or did he have this more fully formed?

Ashlyn Davis Burns  23:16

It was a pretty fully formed idea. By the time that we got to it, we made a minor change. But yeah, for the most part, this is something he really did conceive.

Jennifer Yoffy  23:26

So I have one last question. And normally, I ask guests when they're artists, what right and wrong turns they've made along the way in their art careers. And in this case, I wanted to ask you something a little bit different. And it might be a super tough question, and you didn't have any time to prepare for it. So brace yourself, but can each of you talk about some of the personal experiences you've had, that really shone a light on for you on this need for a new model?

Ashlyn Davis Burns  24:02

I'll go first. Um, you know, I think, as you said, we all have these different winding paths that kind of lead us to where we are today. And, you know, I never really expected to be the executive director of a nonprofit at 28 years old. So I was really focused on writing and doing exhibitions and that kind of thing. And knew that fundraising was my path and the administrative side of things. So HCP, in particular, was at this really interesting moment of transition whenever I started and interestingly Aperture was too when I was a work scholar there. So for me, it always seemed natural that organizations are going to go through these shifts and see changes as they grow and adapt and embrace new aspects of the medium and you know, I think that the nonprofit world at large has a lot of long standing issues that it's working through right now. And, and has been for a while, but they've become a lot clearer. So, you know, I think the overall structure presents some limitations, when you have people who have been there for a very long time and are wanting to be involved in certain areas but maybe aren't quite so sustainable. The ability to shift to something where it's two people who offer different perspectives, but ultimately are working towards the same thing feels much more nimble and much more supportive of our artists. You know, again, it's that long term interaction, it's not short term project based, it's about the people behind the projects. And I think maybe that's a way to kind of sum up my perspective is sometimes I think, in the nonprofit structure, the people behind the projects get lost. And so for me, that's one real impulse behind what we're doing and what we've created.

Shane Lavalette  26:08

So yeah, for me, I think I've, I mean, I've certainly felt the challenges of working as an artist in the field. And I've, you know, even have had a bad experience with a gallery, you know, selling work and not paying me and, you know, just things that aren't really worth getting into. But, you know, it's it's a difficult field to navigate, it's a difficult field to, you know, survive in financially. And so, you know, whether it's nonprofit institutions or artists, spaces, or collectives, like these types of platforms that create a way for artists to have a support system, and a community and, you know, resources or ideas are just so, so essential. And I've experienced that myself. And, in working with Light Work, I've enjoyed, you know, those things, probably most. When you have a residency program, you have artists coming through, and you have a month to work with them in a way that's, you know, very intimate, and you can understand where they're at, and what they need, and have candid conversations. And it's just a kind of beautiful thing. But it's also, you know, sometimes short lived, it just sort of flies by and you're on to the next project. And so I think in some ways, I would return to that too. I've always admired you know, an organization like Creative Capital that invest in ideas, invest in artists and, you know, mentoring and support systems that extend longer and over time. And so for me, that's a really exciting shift. You know, even though the network of artists that I've worked with through institutions, you stay in touch with, and it's not like it disappears. But in this sense, we get the opportunity to work very closely with this incredible group of artists over an extended period of time. I mean, we really, we look at it like, you know, a relationship that we want to grow and evolve and and maintain and nurture.