Jennifer Yoffy  00:06

Welcome to Perfect Bound. I'm Jennifer Yoffy, the founder and publisher of Yoffy Press in Atlanta, Georgia. This is a podcast where we talk to artists about their journey, how they got where they are, what right and wrong turns they made along the way and where they're heading next. Diana Markosian is an American and Russian artist of Armenian descent, working as a documentary photographer, writer and filmmaker. She's an artist known for her collaborative approach to storytelling, which explores themes of family and immigration through a layered interdisciplinary process that uses video, photography, found images, drawings and historical ephemera. Her work is both conceptual and documentary, allowing her subjects to dictate the outcome of their work. Her projects have taken her to some of the remotest corners of the world. And have been featured in National Geographic magazine, The New Yorker and the New York Times. Her first monograph, Santa Barbara, was published by Aperture in November of 2020. The project recreates the story of Markosian family's journey from post Soviet Russia to the United States in the 1990s, pulling together stage scenes film stills and family pictures, and a compelling hybrid of personal and documentary storytelling. In it, the artist grapples with the reality that her mother, seeking a better life for herself and her two young children escaped Russia and came to America. Markosian's family settled in Santa Barbara, a city made famous in Russia when the 1980s soap opera of that name became the first American television show broadcast there weaving together reenactments by actors, archival images, stills from the original Santa Barbara TV show Markosian reconsiders her family's story from her mother's perspective, relating to her for the first time as a woman and coming to terms with the profound sacrifices she made to become an American.  So you originally went to Columbia's Journalism School to be a writer. But then you were introduced to photography by Melanie Burford, who was a photojournalist who spoke to your writing class about the power of still images. She later became your photojournalism professor, and then your mentor. And I was curious how important it was or has been to have a female mentor and role model in a field that's traditionally been very male dominated.

Diana Markosian  02:34

Yeah, I think very early on, I there was this feeling that I was at the wrong institution. And I didn't want to become a writer. I didn't really enjoy Columbia. And when I met Melanie, she said to me that I needed to find one person who could personalize Columbia for me. And I'm not sure she knew that moment that she would become that person. But she really transformed my experience, it was no longer about, you know, graduating and having this diploma, it was about discovering this other world, which was photography, which was art. And she represented that, and just seeing a woman and then just seeing her be in the sort of position that I was aspiring to be in, made me believe in myself. You know, I think I had a handful of role models, and Melanie will forever be the one person who transformed my life.

Jennifer Yoffy  03:38

That's incredible. What a gift too. You know, you think about how, like, what would your life have looked like if she didn't come into it? You know, would you have found photography anyway? Would you have been an unhappy writer? You know, you may have gone in a completely different direction?

Diana Markosian  03:59

Yeah, I was reading this short story, what if, and basically, it just underlines this idea that if it didn't happen now it would have happened in some other way. At some other time. I don't know if.... (pauses) Of course, I believe in that, but I don't know if I believe in that for this circumstance. I think it was her that really inspired me to become a photographer. I didn't have this calling to be a visual storyteller. I wanted to see the world and I wanted to be on a very big adventure. And she almost showed me the way.

Jennifer Yoffy  04:40

That's what's really interesting, because I think for a lot of people it's the reverse, right? Like it's the craft first, and then you figure out an application for it. You know, you read so many photographers BIOS, and it's like when my grandfather first you put a camera in my hand, when I was eight years old I knew, you know, XYZ, and then it's like, so you have this device, and then you're looking for a thing to use it on, you know. And it's interesting to hear you say, like, you knew you wanted to travel and you knew you wanted this big adventure, and it was like, what platform would you use to do it? Did you think writing would do that originally?

Diana Markosian  05:24

Yeah, I think there was this real hunger to see the world more intimately or to understand the world a bit closer. And I thought through writing, I would have an excuse to talk to anyone. There's this bit of my personality that just is, is longing for solitude. And I think when I picked up on the fact that that could be difficult for me in life, like I wanted to find this outlet, this other thing that could help me, you know, communicate with people.

Jennifer Yoffy  06:00

And do you feel the camera has done that, in a better way than writing could have?

Diana Markosian  06:06

Um, I think for me it is better because I think for me, I truly love photography, I love doing what I do. So that already makes it better.

Jennifer Yoffy  06:20

So in your work, Santa Barbara, you tell your family's story from your mother's perspective of leaving Russia to come to America in the hope of finding a better life for herself and her two children. And I can imagine from a photographic perspective, it would be a huge challenge to tell that story visually, especially as someone who comes from a documentary storytelling background. So how did you arrive on the idea of recreating the story using actors?

Diana Markosian  06:53

Yeah, you know, with every project, you kind of lean into, what does the story need? So, you know, you're wondering, how do I best tell this story, and I think every project takes its own turn and becomes its own journey. And I think for me with this story, I didn't know how else to really put myself in my mom's shoes. I thought, okay, well, maybe I can go and take her to these locations and have her relive them. Or we can just go together and try to reimagine it, it just all felt very passive. I didnt feel as though I would truly enter her reality. And I think so much of this project is about cinema. It's about fantasy, and it was about creating another world. So to me that felt very much like film, and working with actors and truly, getting as close as we could to the past felt important.

Jennifer Yoffy  08:10

Did you realize when you started, what a huge undertaking, it would be?

Diana Markosian  08:16

Um, no, you never really realize what you're signing up for. And you never really realize what a project is going to become. And I think that's why I never conceptualize a project or storyboard a project beforehand. Because I, I think there's this side of me that is so in love with documentary in terms of its approach, how allowing something to be what it needs to be, rather than forcing a concept, or forcing a treatment or timeline. And that's a luxury really, because that idea went from being, you know, a year to three years of my life. And I think that these personal projects are such a gift because they really change you, ultimately, and they really change the way you think about work. You know, I don't think my next project will be at all what the last decade of my work has been. I'm constantly evolving and allowing these personal projects to shape me in a different way.

Jennifer Yoffy  09:26

Was that? Did that feel scary or intimidating? I mean, I know you had applied or you were becoming involved with Magnum, and they were unsure about this project in particular, because it stretched the definition of documentary. And, you know, and you pursued it, anyway. And like, is it liberating to kind of not worry so much about those boundaries, or was it terrifying?

Diana Markosian  10:05

It was expensive.

Jennifer Yoffy  10:09

That sounds terrifying. (laughs)

Diana Markosian  10:12

I never expected this project to cost so much and cost so much personally, you know? My relationship ended because of that, expensive because of the real financial cost of making a film. And then the emotional kind of journey you go through that really distances you from everyone else, and then my relationship with my agency, which, you know, is sad, it's all, it's all at a cost. And at the same time, I'm so grateful to have that courage to really believe in something so much. And I think I get that from my mom. I think truly, you know, she's taught me to really trust myself and trust what it is that I believe. I think that from afar, it may look impulsive, but it feels like it's a build up. Like, you know, these things don't come overnight, this idea of leaving Magnum or, you know, coming to America, these decisions aren't things that happen overnight, maybe the logistics of it. But the build up is years, months, in the making of really understanding that this is probably not the right place, this is probably not the right place, not the right company and I think that's something really important to trust. And again, maybe terrifying is the right word, because at the end with every decision comes kind of the result, the end, and it's just you again, alone and you really need to understand whether, you know, I just really don't believe in right or wrong, I think that you make a decision, and then you need to make it right for yourself. And I think that's what the last year has been for me is trying to really understand. Okay, what is my career going to look like? And what is that next chapter in my journey?

Jennifer Yoffy  12:28

Yeah, I mean, it's a huge leap of faith. I get, you know, all of these decisions, and it's very, there's a comfort and safety in knowing. And I think that paralyzes a lot of people, right. Like, the situation they're in might not feel exactly right. But it's, but they at least know; it's known. So it feels safer, or more comfortable than the unknown, you know, taking a step away from it.

Diana Markosian  13:01

Yeah, it's, it's, it's an odd one. To me, it just gets better. Yeah, it is a leap of faith. And I, there's a part of me that just really thinks it does get better, because you don't make these decisions, because things are good. And I think it's in the short term, that it's just really hard. You know, and I stay with these feelings and understand that, um, that it's important to kind of take responsibility of what I've just decided on.

Jennifer Yoffy  13:33

Prior to Santa Barbara, you began another super brave project where you were rediscovering your father after 15 years of separation Inventing My Father, it's the name of the project. And I know you've photographed all over the world and in some very harrowing situations. But to me, both these projects about your personal history are the bravest of work. How did you find the courage to undertake them? And was it worth it?

Diana Markosian  14:04

Um, I don't think the work on my father ever started as a project, it was more of this understanding that I needed to find my father and I was 23 when I found him. And it was 24 when I started making that work, and I agree, I think that project is the most courageous work I've done and courageous because it was just so terrifying, to be in the same room as my dad, and not because of who he is but really, the mystery and everything that he represented, the unknown. And I remember when we found him and feeling like I just wanted to run away, I really wanted to forget that this was my life and to be alone, and it just, it all hurt so much. And then I went back, and then I lived with him for years. And we're now very close. And he had another daughter, who is my half sister who I've been getting to know. And, you know, it's life, right. And that's what I've been growing to understand is it really isn't black and white. And all I can do is do my best to accept things as they are, and not force them and not be angry at the situations. Photography helps me, photography has helped me for the last 10 years, it has become therapy, but it's also become my best friend, where I am never fully alone. And you have these difficult experiences and you find ways of translating them into art. What a gift.

Jennifer Yoffy  16:15

Really, that's, I mean, truly, that's beautiful. This project with your dad wasn't, didn't start as a project, it was a, an attempt to re-meet this person. But you use photography, I mean, the camera as a way for you to connect, you know, you began taking pictures with him of him kind of as a way to bridge that unknown piece or have a starting point even.

Diana Markosian  16:49

Yeah, it was just, I remember thinking, everything we're talking about everything we're experiencing is all about the past. And that past is so painful. So if we start from there, we're always going to be living in pain. And my thinking was, how do I make new memories with my father? How do I overcome this very big gap of 15 years? How do I get to a place where I can just take a walk with him? And it's pleasant, there's not negativity attached to it. And that's, to me, the idea was that photography, and our time together could move us forward. We could start from today and build together, versus what was happening and what I was noticing with our relationship, it all had to do with what happened 15 years ago. So that idea of creating something new creating a new memory, and then having something to show for it felt positive. And I think that was just my..., not even challenge, but goal I think was just how do I create something for us? That's ours....

Jennifer Yoffy  18:09

Yeah, that's beautiful.  So you're young, and you had an outstanding career so far. And you know, these questions are coming. What do you feel has been the best decision you've made? And did you see it that way at the time, like, so something that has happened, that you had a choice between this or that and you went in one direction and you're thankful? Like kind of in hindsight, that that was a fortuitous turn for you.

Diana Markosian  18:47

Um, I think the first one that comes to mind is boarding the flight back to Russia, finishing graduate school, being 21 and just buying a one way ticket to Moscow, and buying my camera. I was so in debt. So in debt and my mom helped me buy my first camera, we split the cost. And that felt like the best decision because that felt very much like I took a chance on myself. And everything moving forward was so self made, and that real hunger was so... it just, it... when I remember myself at that point, it was the courage but also just the joy of really doing the thing that was in my head. That was the best decision.

Jennifer Yoffy  19:45

Yeah, like taking that and doing it all the way in, you know, completely leaning into it.

Diana Markosian  19:51

Yeah. And then I think that set me up for the next decade because that's exactly how I responded to everything moving forward. I would just create these assignments for myself, create these adventures. I never thought okay, well, I'm gonna wait until I don't know, Time magazine sends me here. I was already there. You know, I think that one decision helped me understand that it's all in my hands, I am the architect of my fate. And that felt so empowering. And I sometimes feel like I lose that. I lose that energy, I lose that drive, because you do get older and you do get mostly tired, but you've done it. You're not as excited to do it again. My challenge now is kind of figuring out what is the thing that makes me tick? What what turns me on now? Because it's not the same thing that that, you know, got me on that plane a decade ago?

Jennifer Yoffy  20:52

Sure. And what would you say was, you know, an example of something that you feel like you, in the moment made a poor decision, even if all things turn out for a reason and for the best, but not moment, something that you regretted doing or not doing?

Diana Markosian  21:16

(Laughs) Probably answering this question. I'm gonna save that one for another point. Because probably I would regret answering this question.

Jennifer Yoffy  21:28

Okay, good one, that's good. Um, and then finally, what's, what do you still want to accomplish with your work?

Diana Markosian  21:38

You know, I honestly feel like I'm just getting started. I have produced less in the last six months than I have in, I don't know, just gosh, I don't even remember not working. So, so long. And I think it feels so good. I think people, I think, you know, the world went through the pandemic in 2020. And I was so active in 2020, that I'm now having my pandemic in 2021. And I'm okay with that, you know, I, I am just so comfortable with where I'm at. And I think I have a new project that I'm starting to research and read about, and it's so deeply personal. And I'm going to start photographing it in the Fall. And then I'm making a book with my work on my father. So that will, that will hopefully come out in the next few years.

Jennifer Yoffy  22:40

Is that something that you're working with a publisher, or you're working on it on your own, like in a maquette to then approach different publishers with?

Diana Markosian  22:49

Yeah, I think I want to start by myself, like Santa Barbara kind of started by myself, and then went on to Aperture. Yeah, I think for me, it's, it's what's next? What is next? And, and not in terms of project but what do I see the next 10 years being and looking like for me, because I think these quiet mulls almost may feel really unsettling, because you're not hustling. But to me, they're almost a breath of fresh air because I get to really sit with myself and look at myself in the mirror and say, okay, you're gonna be all right. You don't need to be on a job every week to feel like you're successful, or you know, you're doing okay.

Jennifer Yoffy  23:34

Well, and then it gives you more intentionality, for the hustle, you know, to make sure that you're, if you're always moving and never evaluating what direction you're going in, you can end up in circles or, you know, pointed in the wrong direction

Diana Markosian  23:50

Conveyor belt, and the work feels the same, or the work feels a certain way. And I just, I don't want to have a sort of style in my work. I mean, I do have my style, but I want each project to have its own concept and its own voice. And I think that takes so long to really create.

Jennifer Yoffy  24:14

Right to make sure that the presentation of it and the concept of it are in line. Thank you for listening to the Perfect Bound podcast. This is Jennifer Yoffy. If you want to hear past episodes, you can get them on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and most other streaming platforms. We release new episodes every other Thursday. And I highly encourage you to check out Diana Markosian's work at SF MOMA, which is opening on July 3, there'll be photographs and video and also installations that you can walk into action sets. So it's gonna be a really dynamic exhibition. I really encourage you to check it out if you're in San Francisco, it will run until December 12. And again, thank you for listening. That's exciting that you're starting a new project.

Diana Markosian  25:14

It's, it's a bit um it's, it's brave. Brave in a way that sure the other two, three, you know, whatever projects I've done, they have an element of courage. This is another form of it.

Jennifer Yoffy  25:33

Wow.

Diana Markosian  25:33

So, I'm slightly terrified of what's on the other end of it.

Jennifer Yoffy  25:41

That seems to be your Mo though.

Diana Markosian  25:44

(Laughs) Right.

Jennifer Yoffy  25:44

Thats what gets you out of bed in the morning. Incredible.